So how do (or did) old German breweries produce lactic acid in adequate quantifies to modify water chemistry? I know that Summit received a Lactic fermenter with the brewery shipment. How is traditional Berliner Weiss produced? Do they just add a jug of lactic acid?
Rick
>>> Mike <mpv(a)yuck.net> 12/20/04 11:48PM >>>
Mike,
I made a Berliner Weisse two years ago with Mark Synder. We soured the
mash at 115F for 36 hours, then conducted the mash as usual. Results
were satisfactory, but I was looking for more sourness. A lot of work,
but I'm glad we tried the traditional method. Once.
I'm thinking of making a soured stout, by pitching Wyeast 4335
(L.delbrueckii) and letting it have its way with they wort for 3 days
(or so), then pitching S.cerevisiae. The idea is the 3 days for the
L.delbruekii give it a chance to get established and produce a
significant degree of sourness. The S.cerevisiae then takes over and
makes beer. I forget why I decided three days.
Keep us posted.
On Dec 20, 2004, at 4:24 PM, Steve Fletty wrote:
> I haven't done one, but have some info.
>
> Check out this yeast:
>
> 3763 Roeselare Belgian Blend. This culture is a blend of
> Saccharomyces,
> Brettanomyces, and Lactic Acid Bacteria to produce classic Belgian
> styles of
> sour brown and red beers. The culture is maintained in equilibrium to
> produce a balanced beer with complex aromas and flavors. No additional
> yeast
> is necessary for primary fermentation.
>
> Also, this link:
>
> http://www2.parc.com/eml/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Moranz" <mmoranz(a)net-info.com>
> To: "MHBA" <mba(a)thebarn.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 4:14 PM
> Subject: Yeast and lactobacillus
>
>
>> Anyone have any experience brewing a Flanders Red or Oud Bruin? I'm
>> looking
>> for yeast recomendations and some info on using a lactobacillus
>> culture.
>> Do
>> both cultures get pitched same time? How or does temp affect the
>> sourness?
>> So far WLP500 and Wyeast 4335 look to be ok choices.
>> Mike Moranz
>>
>> -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis --
>> -- Type: application/ms-tnef
>> -- File: winmail.dat
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------
Mike Valentiner, Minneapolis, MN
If you freeze a sanitized plastic water jug 3/4 full and stick it in an
ordinary refrigerator freezer, I've found it achieves the purpose. Leave
it a few days, then strain the resulting slurpee through a sanitized
stainless steel strainer into another container to collect your reward!
(If the container happens to be a corny keg, then your beverage can be
carbonated prior to bottling...)
- Al
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Steve Piatz piatz(a)cray.com
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:28:33 -0600
To: fletty(a)umn.edu, Sphbc(a)sphbc.org, mba(a)thebarn.com
Subject: Re: eis?
The recent "cool" weather did allow me to make a few slurpees. Some
might result in entries.
On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 10:11:42AM -0600, Steve Fletty wrote:
> Anyone got an eis beer, mead or cider going for the Mash-Out?
>
> Believe me, if Al can win with that swill he iced for the last contest,
you
> can too. ;-)
>
> Mike Moranz is working on the Eis trophy. I saw it a few weeks back and
it's
> pretty cool. He's making a stained glass trophy that would look great
> hanging in your brewery.
>
> --
> Steve Fletty
> fletty(a)umn.edu
>
--
Steve Piatz piatz(a)cray.com
Cray Inc. 651-605-9049
1340 Mendota Heights Road cell: 651-428-1417
Mendota Heights, MN 55120
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
Here is a simple technique that allows for sterile transfers under CO2 of Eisindonefroze beer.
1. Add a Phils strainer (or Toms, or Bobs) to the outlet tube of a cornie and sanitize.
2. Add the Eisenready beverage to the cornie with the strainer and freeze.
3. Bring the mess inside or out of the deep freeze to allow the fittings to thaw.
4. Force rack from strainer cornie to second cornie using a few psi of CO2.
5. Waste a little gas towards the end of the transfer to ensure the liquid was moved.
Anyone got an eis beer, mead or cider going for the Mash-Out?
Believe me, if Al can win with that swill he iced for the last contest, you
can too. ;-)
Mike Moranz is working on the Eis trophy. I saw it a few weeks back and it's
pretty cool. He's making a stained glass trophy that would look great
hanging in your brewery.
--
Steve Fletty
fletty(a)umn.edu
Totally unreleated but possibly helpful.......
I read a technique about souring first with Lactic and fermenting second with yeast. Ferment the first stage very warm and cool for the yeast. This possibly provides more sour and more alcohol (best of both?).
I was previously considering making a sour mash in the house and the more I think, the more I believe I shouldn't do it - at least until the windows can remain open. Anyhow, just a thought.
Rick Oftel
>>> "Mike Moranz" <mmoranz(a)net-info.com> 12/21/04 09:31AM >>>
Steve, Steve, and Mike,
Thanks. The link SF provided is more than I need for a Red, but I'm
actually leaning toward the Oud Bruin. I found this link but it's more
about flavor than brewing.
http://www.northamericanbrewers.org/that_old_brown_magic.htm
I don't see Bret mentioned in the BJCP guidelines for an OB. So, I would
avoid the Roselare since it includes the B word. I'm looking for a balanced
beer. It appears that alcohol inhibits the lactic along with low temps, so
pitching all at once with a warmer ferment, rather than adding Lactic at
secondary seems the way to go, along with extended aging.
Mike
> From: Steve Fletty [mailto:fletty@umn.edu]
>
> 3763 Roeselare Belgian Blend. This culture is a blend of Saccharomyces,
> Brettanomyces, and Lactic Acid Bacteria to produce classic
> Belgian styles of
> sour brown and red beers. The culture is maintained in equilibrium to
> produce a balanced beer with complex aromas and flavors. No
> additional yeast
> is necessary for primary fermentation.
>
> Also, this link:
>
> http://www2.parc.com/eml/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
>Steve Piatz agrees.
>Wyeast Roselare is the one to use for Flanders Red as it is the proper
>mixed culture. From what I read it wants to ferment warm (over 75F
>perhaps into the 80s) to get the sourness. The lacto doesn't grow
>very well at cool temps. I held mine around 75-85 for a few months.
Mike Valentiner takes the sour mash approach.
>We soured the mash at 115F for 36 hours, then conducted the mash as usual.
Results
>were satisfactory, but I was looking for more sourness. A lot of work,
>but I'm glad we tried the traditional method. Once.
>I'm thinking of making a soured stout, by pitching Wyeast 4335
>(L.delbrueckii) and letting it have its way with they wort for 3 days
>(or so), then pitching S.cerevisiae. The idea is the 3 days for the
>L.delbruekii give it a chance to get established and produce a
>significant degree of sourness. The S.cerevisiae then takes over and
>makes beer. I forget why I decided three days.
Steve, Steve, and Mike,
Thanks. The link SF provided is more than I need for a Red, but I'm
actually leaning toward the Oud Bruin. I found this link but it's more
about flavor than brewing.
http://www.northamericanbrewers.org/that_old_brown_magic.htm
I don't see Bret mentioned in the BJCP guidelines for an OB. So, I would
avoid the Roselare since it includes the B word. I'm looking for a balanced
beer. It appears that alcohol inhibits the lactic along with low temps, so
pitching all at once with a warmer ferment, rather than adding Lactic at
secondary seems the way to go, along with extended aging.
Mike
> From: Steve Fletty [mailto:fletty@umn.edu]
>
> 3763 Roeselare Belgian Blend. This culture is a blend of Saccharomyces,
> Brettanomyces, and Lactic Acid Bacteria to produce classic
> Belgian styles of
> sour brown and red beers. The culture is maintained in equilibrium to
> produce a balanced beer with complex aromas and flavors. No
> additional yeast
> is necessary for primary fermentation.
>
> Also, this link:
>
> http://www2.parc.com/eml/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
>Steve Piatz agrees.
>Wyeast Roselare is the one to use for Flanders Red as it is the proper
>mixed culture. From what I read it wants to ferment warm (over 75F
>perhaps into the 80s) to get the sourness. The lacto doesn't grow
>very well at cool temps. I held mine around 75-85 for a few months.
Mike Valentiner takes the sour mash approach.
>We soured the mash at 115F for 36 hours, then conducted the mash as usual.
Results
>were satisfactory, but I was looking for more sourness. A lot of work,
>but I'm glad we tried the traditional method. Once.
>I'm thinking of making a soured stout, by pitching Wyeast 4335
>(L.delbrueckii) and letting it have its way with they wort for 3 days
>(or so), then pitching S.cerevisiae. The idea is the 3 days for the
>L.delbruekii give it a chance to get established and produce a
>significant degree of sourness. The S.cerevisiae then takes over and
>makes beer. I forget why I decided three days.
Anyone have any experience brewing a Flanders Red or Oud Bruin? I'm looking
for yeast recomendations and some info on using a lactobacillus culture. Do
both cultures get pitched same time? How or does temp affect the sourness?
So far WLP500 and Wyeast 4335 look to be ok choices.
Mike Moranz
-- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Ecartis --
-- Type: application/ms-tnef
-- File: winmail.dat
You have just about taken care of Black Snow, the coffee porter made with locally roasted Peace Coffee beans. We must release more beer....
This Wednesday (12/22) we will release Town Hall Special. This is a 5.2%abv ale that highlights one of my favorite malts....Belgian Special B, wonderful toasty caramel and maple flavors make this a smooth and delicious beer. Don't worry some new hop flavors are evident. Come in to the Town Hall Brewery and try a pint for just $1 from 5-6pm this Wednesday. (Wednesday will be or new release day...just doing our part to get you through hump-day)
Holiday Hours
Dec.24th 10am-8pm
Come in for our famous brunch at 10am and stay for the big game.
Dec.25 closed
Dec 31 Normal Hours
Jan. 1 Closed
Hope Santa is nice to each of you-
Mike
My brother and I bought two Selection Special Port kits a couple weeks ago from Midwest that we combined into one 6 gallon plastic primary
fermenter.
Dec 4: starting specific gravity = 1.134 Temp 23.5 degrees C
Dec 12: sg = 1.064 stored in basement approx 20 degrees C
Dec 15: sg = 1.046
Dec 19: sg = 1.046 (no change)
We are not supposed to add the corn sugar until the sg has stabilized under 1.015. We added 4 cups of corn sugar today but I'm thinking maybe the yeast are dead??? We are still stuck in the primary!
Suggestions???
Thanks
Kirby
The BIGGEST EVENT OF THE YEAR in the Minnesota Home Brewers Association Calendar is coming up in January! Make your plans now!!!
The Upper Mississippi Mash-Out invites you to enter and/or judge this year's contest! Last year the Mash-Out had 300 entries, separate Best-of-Show awards ("The Mash-Out Chalice") for beers and meads/ciders, and fabulous door prizes for guests at the awards ceremony. This year will be bigger and better still! Here are some of the dates:
Entries Accepted: Jan 8-21, 2005 Midwest or Northern Brewer
Judging: Jan 27-29, 2005 Holiday Inn Metrodome, West Bank
Beer Dinner(new!):Jan 29, 2005 6pm Summit Brewing, St. Paul
Awards Ceremony: Jan 29, 2005 8pm Summit Brewing, St. Paul
We will also have our "Special" category once again - the "Eis-Anything" competition, with it's own special trophy.
We hope you will join us for the 2005 Upper Mississippi Mash-Out. It WILL BE the BIGGEST beer event of the year!! We have some special perks for Judges, Stewards and Volunteers! (You'll have to volunteer to find out WHAT!) If you can't help us steward or judge, then enter some of your homebrews, and if you can't enter, then come help us celebrate at the Beer Dinner, or at the Awards Ceremony with Summit beer!
Check out the details at our web page: http://www.mnbrewers.com/mashout
Download our poster to remind you: http://www.mnbrewers.com/mashout/MashOutFlyer2005.pdf
We hope to see you at this year's Mash-Out!
Al Boyce
Upper Mississippi Mash-Out
