Wayne, When a professional speaks to a group of tinkerers, they start thinking. Personally, I think about 3 or 4 stainless steel "projects" that I wish I could do well. A few of us have heli-arc equipment and some of us have experience. What we could benefit from is possibly a refresher course or some general guidance.
I know you are not just next door but thought the idea may spark some comment from the clubs this message reaches. How can we professionally complete some projects and what are the limits?
My projects would include a really trick fermenter vessel, a powered mash mixer (already have good motor and gearbox) and a 20-23 gallon kettle (already have formed bottom).
Beer anyone?
Rick
Hi All,
I had nothing better to do so I thought I'd join the conversation.
Too many people have gotten carried away with trying to "re-passivate" their
stainless steel kegs & parts and it is just not needed. Here's my 2 cents
worth, I hope it helps.
If the keg just has dirt & grime on it and you are using the 3M green
synthetic scouring pad,(never use steel wool) there is no need to try to
"re-passivate" the stainless keg. Clean it using your pad, hot water and a
strong soap/detergent. Stainless is stainless all the way through. Cleaning
it with the soap/detergent, is enough to allow it to reform its protective
chromium oxide(which it probably never lost). It does this upon contact with
the air anyway but the strong soap/detergent insures that it will oxidize.
The only reasons I'd worry about passivating stainless steels are : 1. When
stick welding stainless and the slag did not come off/you did not clean it
off. 2. Welding sanitary stainless welds using a purge. 3. Screwing up and
imbedding Ferrite into the surface of a stainless part.
In points 1 and 2, the metal did not come in contact with oxygen so it could
oxidize. Slag protects it from the air and so does a purge, therefore it
could not oxidize to form the chromium oxide layer that makes it
"stainless". Most generally it could be washed with a strong soap/detergent
using hot water and that should be sufficient.
Point 3 is more complicated and usually involves soaking the part in nitric
acid or nitric acid and oxidizing salts heated from 130 deg. F to 160 deg.
F. for periods as long as one hour to dissolve the ferrite.
Stainless should be washed with a strong soap/detergent from time to time,
that's the best way to preserve its shine.
What most homebrewers need is a no nonsense seminar on metals used in
brewing.
Being a welder, welding educator and a welding consultant, there is nothing
worse than trying to straighten out somebody else's screwups.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com>
To: Crist, Jonathan <cristj(a)bsci.com>; mba(a)thebarn.com <mba(a)thebarn.com>
Date: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: Re-Passifying Stainless Steel
>I actually have some citric acid in powdered form.
>what is the method? Just let it soak overnight or
>something? Do I need to first try to clean the
>stainless steel as best I can then let it soak?
>
>Thanks,
>WH
>--- "Crist, Jonathan" <cristj(a)bsci.com> wrote:
>> I agree with Dave - you typically need the nitric
>> acid
>> You probably can't find it as a homebrewer but Acid
>> #5 from Five Star
>> Chemicals works very well. It is a blend of nitric
>> acid, phosphoric acid and
>> other acids to help clean and passivate the surface.
>>
>> Another method to passivate stainless steel is with
>> citric acid. This is
>> safer and sometimes faster than nitric acid.
>> Solutions with 4 to 10% citric
>> acid (by weight) will safely remove the iron oxide
>> and free iron and leave a
>> chrome oxide rich (passivated) surface.
>>
>> Jonathan Crist
>>
>> > ----------
>> > From: David H Berg[SMTP:bergbrew@juno.com]
>> > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:59 AM
>> > To: brew987(a)yahoo.com
>> > Cc: mba(a)thebarn.com
>> > Subject: Re: Re-Passifying Stainless Steel
>> >
>> > Your need to use Nitric acid to pacify
>> stainless--phosphoric won't cut
>> > it.
>> >
>> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:30:30 -0800 (PST) Will
>> Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com>
>> > writes:
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > I think I saw some postings on this subject
>> before. It
>> > > has recently come to my attention that my method
>> for
>> > > cleaning up my 1/2 barrell kegs (using the 3M
>> green
>> > > scrubby pads) actually takes off some of the SS
>> > > protective coating. I am curious if I can
>> re-passify
>> > > teh SS by using phosphoric acid. Does anyone
>> know the
>> > > "recipe" for doing this? I have not noticed any
>> off
>> > > flavors, or oxidation as of yet, but was curious
>> of
>> > > others' opinions of this etc., and if it is a
>> > > reasonable course of action to pursue ...
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > WH
>> > > WindRiver Brewing
>> > >
>> > >
>> __________________________________________________
>> > > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site
>> hosting, just
>> > > $8.95/month.
>> > > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>> >
>> >
>>
>________________________________________________________________
>> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
>> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for
>> less!
>> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
>> > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
>http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
I agree with Dave - you typically need the nitric acid
You probably can't find it as a homebrewer but Acid #5 from Five Star
Chemicals works very well. It is a blend of nitric acid, phosphoric acid and
other acids to help clean and passivate the surface.
Another method to passivate stainless steel is with citric acid. This is
safer and sometimes faster than nitric acid. Solutions with 4 to 10% citric
acid (by weight) will safely remove the iron oxide and free iron and leave a
chrome oxide rich (passivated) surface.
Jonathan Crist
> ----------
> From: David H Berg[SMTP:bergbrew@juno.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:59 AM
> To: brew987(a)yahoo.com
> Cc: mba(a)thebarn.com
> Subject: Re: Re-Passifying Stainless Steel
>
> Your need to use Nitric acid to pacify stainless--phosphoric won't cut
> it.
>
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:30:30 -0800 (PST) Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com>
> writes:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think I saw some postings on this subject before. It
> > has recently come to my attention that my method for
> > cleaning up my 1/2 barrell kegs (using the 3M green
> > scrubby pads) actually takes off some of the SS
> > protective coating. I am curious if I can re-passify
> > teh SS by using phosphoric acid. Does anyone know the
> > "recipe" for doing this? I have not noticed any off
> > flavors, or oxidation as of yet, but was curious of
> > others' opinions of this etc., and if it is a
> > reasonable course of action to pursue ...
> >
> > Thanks,
> > WH
> > WindRiver Brewing
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just
> > $8.95/month.
> > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
Hi,
I think I saw some postings on this subject before. It
has recently come to my attention that my method for
cleaning up my 1/2 barrell kegs (using the 3M green
scrubby pads) actually takes off some of the SS
protective coating. I am curious if I can re-passify
teh SS by using phosphoric acid. Does anyone know the
"recipe" for doing this? I have not noticed any off
flavors, or oxidation as of yet, but was curious of
others' opinions of this etc., and if it is a
reasonable course of action to pursue ...
Thanks,
WH
WindRiver Brewing
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
Does anyone know what the gravity is for one pound of Corn Meal in one
gallon of water. I am planning on doing a CAP(Pre-pro pils) and my Promash
does not have it in the database. It has flaked maize, but I will be doing
a traditional american double mash, like they did in the late 1800's and
early 1900's before the volstead act was in force.
Thanks
Erik Nelson
heimbrauer(a)astound.net
I saw some not so good news on the Central florida homebrewers site when I went to look at a competition they are doing in jan. There link is http://cfhb.org/index.html But it say that the beer writer George Fix, who wrote the Vienna, Oktoberfest, Märzen book has cancer bad. The page has a spot where we can send him a note of encouragement.
Erik Nelson
CTB
Congratulations to Todd Ashman, Luke Kazmierski and Greg Browne for their
victories in the 25th CBS Fall Tasting. As you can see from the list below,
our local brewers defeated some very well respected breweries. For one
weekend, malt ruled over hops!
1st Place - Flossmoor Station Imperial Eclipse Stout
2nd Place - Mickey Finn's Strong Scotch Ale
3rd Place - Flatlander's Ardennes Dubbel
Alaskan Brewing, Juneau, Alaska - Alaskan Amber and Alaskan ESB
Anchor Brewing, San Francisco, CA - Old Forghorn
Bells Brewing, Kalamazoo, MI - Two Hearted Ale
Flatlanders Restaurant & Brewery, Lincolnshire, IL - Ardennes Dubbel
Flossmoor Station & Brewing, Flossmoor, IL - Imperial Eclipse Stout
Goose Island Beer Company, Chicago, IL - Blue and Christmas Ale
Gosser Brewery, Goss, Austria - Gosser Dark
Lakefront Brewing, Milwaukee, WI - Riverwest Stein Beer
Mickey Finns Brewery, Libertyville, IL - Strong Scotch Ale
Plzensky Prazdroj, Pilsen, Czech Republic - Pilsner Urquell
Rock Bottom Brewing, Chicago, IL - Sub Zero Barley Wine
Rogue Brewing, Newport, OR - Shakespeare Stout
Sierra Nevada Brewing, Chico, CA - Celebration Ale
Sprecher Brewing, Glendale, WI - Doppelbock
The Club-Competition "MILDS" entries are due December 7. Anybody want to
get together on Tuesday, November 27 for a tasting? We can have it at my
place, 7pm, unless someone else wants to host. Who's got entries?
- Al
3208 Edgewood Ave So
St.Louis Park, MN 55426
(952) 927-8968
I have a chance to pick up an old 32 gallon stainless keg. It has been outdoors for several months and has a very light coat of rust. My thoughts are, nice boiler, sparge water, or whatever. Comments please.
Greg
Speaking of cider, maybe someone with some experience can give me advice? My
original intent with this year's batch (my second try) was to experiment with
cider's natural yeasts to see how that would affect the finished product. I was
hoping for something a little bit on the sweet side (1.010-1.020). I restrained
myself long enough to let it get going, which took a few days. I finally got
around to tasting it a couple of days after noticing active fermentation, and it
was already quite dry at about 1.004. Now I would like to kill the critters off
and maybe add something back to increase the apple flavor and/or sweeten it.
Should I just chill it and add a little fresh pasteurized or preserved cider to
taste? Has anyone tried something like this that would care to share their
experience?
"Russell Loucks" <rjl(a)mm.com> on 11/14/2001 03:43:44 PM
To: "Rick Larson" <rick(a)adc.com>, "My Beer Alias List" <mba(a)thebarn.com>
cc: (bcc: Jason Nelson/MN/Unitedmail)
Subject: Re: Cider
Holy Wild Yeast, Batman!!!
I was hoping the wild yeast present in my batch of cider would be strong
enough to ferment, but no!!!! After two days of no activity I had to pitch
some champagne yeast..... I got my cider at the 'club press' at Webbers.
This year's batch of cider is the first batch that didn't didn't have enough
wild yeast on it to ferment. Oh, well. I just racked mine into
secondaries. Rather dry tasting (as a result of using the champagne
yeast....).
Enjoy!
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Larson" <rick(a)adc.com>
To: "My Beer Alias List" <mba(a)thebarn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Cider
> Jim's cider post reminded me to give a quick update on
> my cider.
>
> I hope everyone's cider is happily fermenting. The club buy
> cider is really getting great (a bit of sulfur in the nose does
> blow off). I was racking some off into a serving container
> until the boys said the cider was tasting "funny".
>
> My technique is very simple. Pour jugs into sanitized
> corny keg. Let sit for 3 days at basement temperature.
> Put in fridge. Chill. Blow off any pressure and serve it.
>
> I've been really enjoying this years batch and hope to have
> some left by Thanksgiving.
>
> I'll have to try some more tonight :-).
> rick
>
