I'm no microbiologist, but I've thought of playing one on TV.
Pathogens will not grow in beer due to the following reasons:
1. Acidity of beer
2. Alcohol
3. Hops
Also, yeast is pretty agressive in its fight for a food source, so it is
often hard for bacteria to get its foot in the door even.
We're not saying that yeast or bacteria can't grow in beer--just none
that will kill you.
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:49:19 -0600 "Carole Peter"
<cpeter(a)srfconsulting.com> writes:
>
> I know I'm extrapolating this to another level, but I'm amazed (and
> disappointed) about "Charly P." saying no pathogens survive in beer.
> If
> this were so, beer would be used to disinfect things like surgical
> instruments. I'm not so sure I'd like my obstetrician or brain
> surgeon
> using beer for disinfection. (just hand that beer to ME). If YEAST
> can
> grow in beer, I'm sure there's some nasty bug that can kill you that
> can
> grow in beer. Any microbiologists care to set us straight? ;->
> cwp
>
> >>> Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com> 10/31/02 08:36AM >>>
>
> I am curious as to why contamination in wine can be
> deadly whereas not so in beer? Does the acidity have
> anything to do with it?
>
> --- Gregory Walsh <popcorn(a)ties.k12.mn.us> wrote:
> >
> > If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman
> > to hear him. Is he still wrong?
> >
> > Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with
> > Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding. Fifteen
> > years ago Poison Control told me that contamination
> > in home-made wine was common and sometimes fatal.
> > Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that
> > survive in beer.
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
>
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>
>
David Berg
President, Minnesota Craft Brewer's Guild
Head Brewer, Water Tower Brewing Company
http://www.mncraftbrew.org
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I know I'm extrapolating this to another level, but I'm amazed (and
disappointed) about "Charly P." saying no pathogens survive in beer. If
this were so, beer would be used to disinfect things like surgical
instruments. I'm not so sure I'd like my obstetrician or brain surgeon
using beer for disinfection. (just hand that beer to ME). If YEAST can
grow in beer, I'm sure there's some nasty bug that can kill you that can
grow in beer. Any microbiologists care to set us straight? ;-> cwp
>>> Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com> 10/31/02 08:36AM >>>
I am curious as to why contamination in wine can be
deadly whereas not so in beer? Does the acidity have
anything to do with it?
--- Gregory Walsh <popcorn(a)ties.k12.mn.us> wrote:
>
> If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman
> to hear him. Is he still wrong?
>
> Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with
> Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding. Fifteen
> years ago Poison Control told me that contamination
> in home-made wine was common and sometimes fatal.
> Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that
> survive in beer.
>
> Greg
>
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If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman to hear him. Is he still wrong?
Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding. Fifteen years ago Poison Control told me that contamination in home-made wine was common and sometimes fatal. Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that survive in beer.
Greg
It is obvious none of you have taken a journey on a motorscooter. If
you get caught in the rain you can:
1. Get wet quickly
2. Put on rain suit and get wet slowly
3. Drive fast behind a large truck using their dry "track marks" for
wet surface tracion enhancement.
4. My favorite - come in out of the rain while stopping at a bar for a
beer.
So if you get caught in the rain, is it better to run quickly to shorten
the time (although hitting more raindrops) or walk slowly, hitting fewer
raindrops yet being in the rain for a longer amount of time?
________________________________________________________________
>>> Mead
>>> fermentations are typically slow - no need to worry about the
>>> academic
>>> hypothesis of CO2 bubbles stripping away aromatics.
>>
>> So if you get caught in the rain, is it better to run quickly to shorten
>> the time (although hitting more raindrops) or walk slowly, hitting fewer
>> raindrops yet being in the rain for a longer amount of time?
>
> The smartest people take the skyway and avoid the rain alltogether. And
> this gets us back to my recommendation of adding more honey if needed
after
> fermentation and adding sorbate and sulfite to prevent subsequent
> fermentation.
>
> More honey initially won't make for a faster fermentation but feeding a
> fermentation does draw out the process. Mead fermentation doesn't adhere
to
> a mathematical equation. It is really quite different than brewing.
>
> Christopher Hadden
> http://www.aboutmead.com/
I should add that feeding a fermentation is a legitimate technique to
increase the strength and character of a mead but it's usually done as a
corrective measure rather than a technique someone sets out to do. I guess
this would be a good question for rec.crafts.meadmaking or the Mead Lover's
Digest.
Chris
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- Al
"David H
Berg" To: chadden(a)contecrayon.com
<bergbrew@jun cc: mba(a)thebarn.com
o.com> Subject: Re: Honey Locator
Sent by:
mba-bounce@th
ebarn.com
10/30/2002
12:37 PM
> Mead
> fermentations are typically slow - no need to worry about the
> academic
> hypothesis of CO2 bubbles stripping away aromatics.
So if you get caught in the rain, is it better to run quickly to shorten
the time (although hitting more raindrops) or walk slowly, hitting fewer
raindrops yet being in the rain for a longer amount of time?
________________________________________________________________
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> > Mead
> > fermentations are typically slow - no need to worry about the
> > academic
> > hypothesis of CO2 bubbles stripping away aromatics.
>
> So if you get caught in the rain, is it better to run quickly to shorten
> the time (although hitting more raindrops) or walk slowly, hitting fewer
> raindrops yet being in the rain for a longer amount of time?
The smartest people take the skyway and avoid the rain alltogether. And
this gets us back to my recommendation of adding more honey if needed after
fermentation and adding sorbate and sulfite to prevent subsequent
fermentation.
More honey initially won't make for a faster fermentation but feeding a
fermentation does draw out the process. Mead fermentation doesn't adhere to
a mathematical equation. It is really quite different than brewing.
Christopher Hadden
http://www.aboutmead.com/
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John,
Orange Blossom Mead should be made with 100% OB honey. Ferment it dry with
Premier Cuvee or champagne yeast and then add more to sweeten to taste.
This will help increase the character of the orange blossom honey. You'll
also need to add sorbate and sulfite to prevent subsequent fermentation.
In the case of mead making, adding honey to the "secondary fermenter" is
referred to as feeding the fermentation. In truth, this is a continuation
of the primary fermentation. I typically don't feed fermentations because
it takes way too long and you no longer have an OG value that can be used
for calculations since the SG of honey varies quite a bit. This technique
can be used to increase the honey character but the much more effective and
efficient method is mentioned above.
In my opinion, fruit is best added at the beginning to provide the yeast
with the nutrients it needs. It speeds up fermentation and the aging
process. Also, you can more easily pasteurize the fruit at this time. I
still add yeast nutrients with melomels, but I scale the amount back. The
best yeast nutrient for mead making is available at Semplex. Mead
fermentations are typically slow - no need to worry about the academic
hypothesis of CO2 bubbles stripping away aromatics. If you want to add
fruit extracts, you can do so after fermentation as the mead is aging or at
bottling. I prefer natural fruit because of the flavor and the benefits
mentioned above.
Boiling honey has more cons than pros and most mead makers avoid it because
the cons are significant. Boiling honey imparts a harshness that can take
years to mellow. Also, boiling does diminish the aroma of mead. Boil the
water instead and then add honey that's been warmed to facilitate
extraction from the container. Let the must pasteurize for 15 minutes.
Alternately, you can sulfite the must instead of pasteurization as it's
done in winemaking.
Which article are you referring to? I'd like to read it.
Happy meadmaking and wassail!
Christopher Hadden
http://www.aboutmead.com/
Original Message:
-----------------
From: John Longballa longballa(a)hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:59:03 -0600
To: mba(a)thebarn.com
Subject: Honey Locator
An article on mead in the latest issue of Winemaker magazine states:
"There are several bulk honey suppliers that are good sources of honey; the
National Honey Board keeps a list of them. (Go to www.honeylocator.com to
search the NHB database. The site also lists beekeeping associations by
state.)"
I read a different article that said that lighter honeys, such as orange
blossom, should be added to the secondary fermenter, rather than to the
primary, in order to preserve their delicate aromas. Is the author simply
telling the reader that the boiling process is too vigorous for the lighter
honeys, or is there something different about fermentation in the secondary
fermenter? I would think that the yeast would do the same things to the
honey that is added to the secondary that it would have done to that honey
in the primary. I've noticed that fruit extracts are often added to beer
in
the secondary. Won't the extracts suffer the same fate in the primary that
they would in the secondary? I'm confused. Same yeast, same temperature
(for the most part), what's different? Thanks.
John Longballa
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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An article on mead in the latest issue of Winemaker magazine states:
"There are several bulk honey suppliers that are good sources of honey; the
National Honey Board keeps a list of them. (Go to www.honeylocator.com to
search the NHB database. The site also lists beekeeping associations by
state.)"
I read a different article that said that lighter honeys, such as orange
blossom, should be added to the secondary fermenter, rather than to the
primary, in order to preserve their delicate aromas. Is the author simply
telling the reader that the boiling process is too vigorous for the lighter
honeys, or is there something different about fermentation in the secondary
fermenter? I would think that the yeast would do the same things to the
honey that is added to the secondary that it would have done to that honey
in the primary. I've noticed that fruit extracts are often added to beer in
the secondary. Won't the extracts suffer the same fate in the primary that
they would in the secondary? I'm confused. Same yeast, same temperature
(for the most part), what's different? Thanks.
John Longballa
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Hi,
Just a reminder that we will be having a WestSide
meeting at Sherlock's tonight at 7:00 pm. And i will
be able to enjoy a pint this time! As usual, no set
agenda, so bring your random thoughts etc.
Cheers
WH
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