Thank you Steve and Dave. We may hear some more on this one.
Now to answer another question similar to the rain question: If a man
speaks in the woods and there is no woman to hear him, is he still
wrong? It depends how he answers his own question.
Rick Oftel
Hi All,
Has anyone seen the Lowenbrau O'fest in the metro area yet?
We had some last weekend and it is very good.
We found it at Westside Discount Liquors in Waite Park, for $13.99 per 5 liter mini keg.
Hawkeye
> Regarding the fermentability of mead. I believe the
> amino acid content of mead is near zero. I suspect
> the same could be said of grapes. Honey and grape
> juice are protein free.
>
Hey, that makes it even easier. Kind of like knowing what is in RO
water.
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That I do not know. There was some talk at one time that as the large
breweries used smaller quantity of hops in their beers, there may be a
risk of bacteria surviving.
You also boil wort for a period of time.
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:03:02 -0800 (PST) Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com>
writes:
>
> So is it the extra ingredient of hops that makes beer
> less prone to deadly bacteria than wine? Or is it just
> not true that deadly bacteria can grow in wine?
>
> --- David H Berg <bergbrew(a)juno.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm no microbiologist, but I've thought of playing
> > one on TV.
> >
> > Pathogens will not grow in beer due to the following
> > reasons:
> >
> > 1. Acidity of beer
> > 2. Alcohol
> > 3. Hops
> >
> > Also, yeast is pretty agressive in its fight for a
> > food source, so it is
> > often hard for bacteria to get its foot in the door
> > even.
> >
> > We're not saying that yeast or bacteria can't grow
> > in beer--just none
> > that will kill you.
> >
> > On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:49:19 -0600 "Carole Peter"
> > <cpeter(a)srfconsulting.com> writes:
> > >
> > > I know I'm extrapolating this to another level,
> > but I'm amazed (and
> > > disappointed) about "Charly P." saying no
> > pathogens survive in beer.
> > > If
> > > this were so, beer would be used to disinfect
> > things like surgical
> > > instruments. I'm not so sure I'd like my
> > obstetrician or brain
> > > surgeon
> > > using beer for disinfection. (just hand that beer
> > to ME). If YEAST
> > > can
> > > grow in beer, I'm sure there's some nasty bug that
> > can kill you that
> > > can
> > > grow in beer. Any microbiologists care to set us
> > straight? ;->
> > > cwp
> > >
> > > >>> Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com> 10/31/02
> > 08:36AM >>>
> > >
> > > I am curious as to why contamination in wine can
> > be
> > > deadly whereas not so in beer? Does the acidity
> > have
> > > anything to do with it?
> > >
> > > --- Gregory Walsh <popcorn(a)ties.k12.mn.us> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If a man speaks in the woods and there is no
> > woman
> > > > to hear him. Is he still wrong?
> > > >
> > > > Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with
> > > > Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding.
> > Fifteen
> > > > years ago Poison Control told me that
> > contamination
> > > > in home-made wine was common and sometimes
> > fatal.
> > > > Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that
> > > > survive in beer.
> > > >
> > > > Greg
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> > > http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > David Berg
> > President, Minnesota Craft Brewer's Guild
> > Head Brewer, Water Tower Brewing Company
> > http://www.mncraftbrew.org
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________
> > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> > Only $9.95 per month!
> > Visit www.juno.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
David Berg
President, Minnesota Craft Brewer's Guild
Head Brewer, Water Tower Brewing Company
http://www.mncraftbrew.org
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Now the microbiologist/homebrewer/mead maker/new dad/entrepreneur/and general well-meaning PITA enters the discussion... :)
Hi Dave et. al.,
In a nutshell.... excellent reply to Carole from David Berg. You could dress up as a microbiologist tonight and even justify begging for some candy!! :P But watch out for those nasty cavity-causing bacteria that live in the oral regions....they do like the sugars found in Halloween goodies!
It is very true that known disease-causing microorganisms are not found in finished beer. Even Belgian Lambic's, weird as they may be, are not beverages that would make one nervous about getting sick. Cleaning out your digestive system and taking care of any fecal constipation.... that may or may not occur..... ok, enough about that!!
Beer....even "Spoiled" beer is an interesting beverage. It also is a growth substrate for a few organisms. Very few, actually. Dave's mention of low pH (acidity), alcohol content, and presence of hop flower chemicals is right on target for providing reasons that homebrew (or bad commercial beer, for that matter) is not a worrisome beverage for us consumers/producers.
FYI, hop tea has been used as a beverage for a number of reasons besides providing hop character to beer. Including usage as a sleep aid (well, that is somewhat debatable...but go check out the history of hop usage), and as an aid for "bellyaches" (more plausible). Hop analysis has shown many different types of interesting organic compounds, some of which are very effective antimicrobials. OK, time to step away from the soapbox again....
Charlie P. is not necessarily the world's leading authority on microbes and their relationship to beer/mead/other quaffable stuff. But, he does have a basic grasp of what is important. So do people like Dr. Michael Lewis and Greg Noonan and, may God rest his soul, Dr. George Fix. What it comes down to is this, IMNSHOP..... clean your brew equipment as best you can.... use good water, good grain or malt extract, use good, fresh hops, and add lots of Saccharomyces cerevisiae (yeast), and then sit back and observe one of nature's miracles take place....then relax, don't worry and drink your homebrew!!
Just my more-than two cents worth..... :P
Best wishes to all for a Hoppy and safe Halloween!!
Steve Weiland
>I'm no microbiologist, but I've thought of playing one on TV.
>
>Pathogens will not grow in beer due to the following reasons:
>
>1. Acidity of beer
>2. Alcohol
>3. Hops
>
>Also, yeast is pretty agressive in its fight for a food source, so it is
>often hard for bacteria to get its foot in the door even.
>
>We're not saying that yeast or bacteria can't grow in beer--just none
>that will kill you.
>
>On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:49:19 -0600 "Carole Peter"
><cpeter(a)srfconsulting.com> writes:
>>
>> I know I'm extrapolating this to another level, but I'm amazed (and
>> disappointed) about "Charly P." saying no pathogens survive in beer.
>> If
>> this were so, beer would be used to disinfect things like surgical
>> instruments. I'm not so sure I'd like my obstetrician or brain
>> surgeon
>> using beer for disinfection. (just hand that beer to ME). If YEAST
>> can
>> grow in beer, I'm sure there's some nasty bug that can kill you that
>> can
>> grow in beer. Any microbiologists care to set us straight? ;->
>> cwp
>>
>> >>> Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com> 10/31/02 08:36AM >>>
>>
>> I am curious as to why contamination in wine can be
>> deadly whereas not so in beer? Does the acidity have
>> anything to do with it?
>>
>> --- Gregory Walsh <popcorn(a)ties.k12.mn.us> wrote:
>> >
>> > If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman
>> > to hear him. Is he still wrong?
>> >
>> > Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with
>> > Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding. Fifteen
>> > years ago Poison Control told me that contamination
>> > in home-made wine was common and sometimes fatal.
>> > Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that
>> > survive in beer.
>> >
>> > Greg
>> >
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
>> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>David Berg
>President, Minnesota Craft Brewer's Guild
>Head Brewer, Water Tower Brewing Company
>http://www.mncraftbrew.org
>
>
>________________________________________________________________
>Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
>Only $9.95 per month!
>Visit www.juno.com
>
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I'm no microbiologist, but I've thought of playing one on TV.
Pathogens will not grow in beer due to the following reasons:
1. Acidity of beer
2. Alcohol
3. Hops
Also, yeast is pretty agressive in its fight for a food source, so it is
often hard for bacteria to get its foot in the door even.
We're not saying that yeast or bacteria can't grow in beer--just none
that will kill you.
On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 08:49:19 -0600 "Carole Peter"
<cpeter(a)srfconsulting.com> writes:
>
> I know I'm extrapolating this to another level, but I'm amazed (and
> disappointed) about "Charly P." saying no pathogens survive in beer.
> If
> this were so, beer would be used to disinfect things like surgical
> instruments. I'm not so sure I'd like my obstetrician or brain
> surgeon
> using beer for disinfection. (just hand that beer to ME). If YEAST
> can
> grow in beer, I'm sure there's some nasty bug that can kill you that
> can
> grow in beer. Any microbiologists care to set us straight? ;->
> cwp
>
> >>> Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com> 10/31/02 08:36AM >>>
>
> I am curious as to why contamination in wine can be
> deadly whereas not so in beer? Does the acidity have
> anything to do with it?
>
> --- Gregory Walsh <popcorn(a)ties.k12.mn.us> wrote:
> >
> > If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman
> > to hear him. Is he still wrong?
> >
> > Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with
> > Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding. Fifteen
> > years ago Poison Control told me that contamination
> > in home-made wine was common and sometimes fatal.
> > Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that
> > survive in beer.
> >
> > Greg
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
David Berg
President, Minnesota Craft Brewer's Guild
Head Brewer, Water Tower Brewing Company
http://www.mncraftbrew.org
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
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I know I'm extrapolating this to another level, but I'm amazed (and
disappointed) about "Charly P." saying no pathogens survive in beer. If
this were so, beer would be used to disinfect things like surgical
instruments. I'm not so sure I'd like my obstetrician or brain surgeon
using beer for disinfection. (just hand that beer to ME). If YEAST can
grow in beer, I'm sure there's some nasty bug that can kill you that can
grow in beer. Any microbiologists care to set us straight? ;-> cwp
>>> Will Holway <brew987(a)yahoo.com> 10/31/02 08:36AM >>>
I am curious as to why contamination in wine can be
deadly whereas not so in beer? Does the acidity have
anything to do with it?
--- Gregory Walsh <popcorn(a)ties.k12.mn.us> wrote:
>
> If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman
> to hear him. Is he still wrong?
>
> Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with
> Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding. Fifteen
> years ago Poison Control told me that contamination
> in home-made wine was common and sometimes fatal.
> Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that
> survive in beer.
>
> Greg
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
If a man speaks in the woods and there is no woman to hear him. Is he still wrong?
Someone said "sanitation is not as critical with Mead and Wine" this is not my understanding. Fifteen years ago Poison Control told me that contamination in home-made wine was common and sometimes fatal. Charly P. sez there are no known pathogens that survive in beer.
Greg
It is obvious none of you have taken a journey on a motorscooter. If
you get caught in the rain you can:
1. Get wet quickly
2. Put on rain suit and get wet slowly
3. Drive fast behind a large truck using their dry "track marks" for
wet surface tracion enhancement.
4. My favorite - come in out of the rain while stopping at a bar for a
beer.
So if you get caught in the rain, is it better to run quickly to shorten
the time (although hitting more raindrops) or walk slowly, hitting fewer
raindrops yet being in the rain for a longer amount of time?
________________________________________________________________
>>> Mead
>>> fermentations are typically slow - no need to worry about the
>>> academic
>>> hypothesis of CO2 bubbles stripping away aromatics.
>>
>> So if you get caught in the rain, is it better to run quickly to shorten
>> the time (although hitting more raindrops) or walk slowly, hitting fewer
>> raindrops yet being in the rain for a longer amount of time?
>
> The smartest people take the skyway and avoid the rain alltogether. And
> this gets us back to my recommendation of adding more honey if needed
after
> fermentation and adding sorbate and sulfite to prevent subsequent
> fermentation.
>
> More honey initially won't make for a faster fermentation but feeding a
> fermentation does draw out the process. Mead fermentation doesn't adhere
to
> a mathematical equation. It is really quite different than brewing.
>
> Christopher Hadden
> http://www.aboutmead.com/
I should add that feeding a fermentation is a legitimate technique to
increase the strength and character of a mead but it's usually done as a
corrective measure rather than a technique someone sets out to do. I guess
this would be a good question for rec.crafts.meadmaking or the Mead Lover's
Digest.
Chris
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