I develop a scum or white film on clear glasses after washing them many many times in the dishwasher. I believe something is reacting with the glass or etching it in some manner and have never been able to find a trick to remove it. Tried heavy phosphoric (no nitric or sulphuric around) Are these two related? Have also noticed a few bottles with this cloudy appearance. They typically are the thinner shorter styles. I just complete the cycle and recycle. Hot water soak removes labels too - it just takes longer but you need to hot rinse well to remove all glue residue. Rick I have seen the scum which appears to be the high chalk content of the water when using bleach and/or TSP to soak bottle. I found it didn't happen if I used water that had been through the water softner. In my house several of the cold water taps bypass the softner, all the hot water comes through the softner. Ryan Sinn writes: bleach. that the on them, it? Has -- Steve Piatz piatz(a)cray.com Cray Inc. 651-605-9049 1340 Mendota Heights Road Mendota Heights, MN 55120