29 Jan
2003
29 Jan
'03
9:09 a.m.
has anyone tried side by side recipes, or at least repeated the same recipe,
and compared Wyeast to White Labs?
Recently I started brewing recipes with White Labs yeast that I've repeated
several times before with Wyeast and I've noticed differences in how quickly
(or slowly) they ferment but I don't know if it is just my luck, system or
recipes.
1) starter solutions seem to take longer to step up. I like to step the
starter up a few times, pouring off the "beer", to gather lots of yeast.
With the same basic sterile wort solution and fresh yeast the White Labs
seems to take long to complete the cycle and drop out. Some varieties
(pilsner) don't drop well at all.
2) the initial fermentation (both starters and real recipes) seem to start
faster with White Labs which is a good thing. I often see good activity in
less than 6 hours.
3) fermentations seem to take much longer to complete As I repeat recipes
that I have made several times before with Wyeast I can see a significant
difference (days) in time to complete fermentation with the White Labs.
Aeration, yeast nutrient, recipe, starting gravity, temperature - all as
close to the same as I can control.
As I think back to the first few recipes I tried with White Labs I do
remember having to be very patient while waiting for the fermentation to
complete, but I didn't have anything with which to compare. Somewhat like
watching a kettle boil.
If anyone else has experience with switch between yeast brands on a recipe,
or other suggestions I'd appreciate the response. The faster start and the
slower finish is what really has be confused.
Since this is working out to be such a great basis for an experiment I think
I will try the next step. One of my next brews I will try a side by side
comparison. I will make starter solutions from each brand and split a batch
to really compare differences (including taste) from what should be the
same.
Thanks
Jonathan
29 Jan
29 Jan
9:46 a.m.
I use both. Wy has had a bad reputation with regard to purity and cross contamination,
but I never made a bad beer with it. WL vials have a higher cell count than the small Wy
smack packs. I assume the pitchable Wy tubes are about the same cell count as the WL,
since Wyeast obviously brought those to market in response to the competition from WL. I
always use a starter with both brands. I have never noticed a difference in fermentation
behavior from brand to brand, but there certainly is a difference strain to strain (Wy to
Wy, WL to WL, or Wy to WL). This time of year with cooler temp in my fermentation room, I
get a very noticeable behavior in my fermentations: they take longer to run and longer to
drop out. Supposedly, some strains of one brand are the same as another strain of the
other brand. I started a spread sheet long ago to track this, I'll see if I can find
it. The differences you describe in your fermentations could be attributed to freshness,
stress from packaging and transport, temperature, cell count, and strain. Once you factor
those out, I think you'll find you're using the same yeast strain under the same
conditions and you'll get the same results.
At 10:09 AM -0500 1/29/03, Crist, Jonathan wrote:
has anyone tried side by side recipes, or at least
repeated the same recipe,
and compared Wyeast to White Labs?
Recently I started brewing recipes with White Labs yeast that I've repeated
several times before with Wyeast and I've noticed differences in how quickly
(or slowly) they ferment but I don't know if it is just my luck, system or
recipes.
1) starter solutions seem to take longer to step up. I like to step the
starter up a few times, pouring off the "beer", to gather lots of yeast.
With the same basic sterile wort solution and fresh yeast the White Labs
seems to take long to complete the cycle and drop out. Some varieties
(pilsner) don't drop well at all.
2) the initial fermentation (both starters and real recipes) seem to start
faster with White Labs which is a good thing. I often see good activity in
less than 6 hours.
3) fermentations seem to take much longer to complete As I repeat recipes
that I have made several times before with Wyeast I can see a significant
difference (days) in time to complete fermentation with the White Labs.
Aeration, yeast nutrient, recipe, starting gravity, temperature - all as
close to the same as I can control.
As I think back to the first few recipes I tried with White Labs I do
remember having to be very patient while waiting for the fermentation to
complete, but I didn't have anything with which to compare. Somewhat like
watching a kettle boil.
If anyone else has experience with switch between yeast brands on a recipe,
or other suggestions I'd appreciate the response. The faster start and the
slower finish is what really has be confused.
Since this is working out to be such a great basis for an experiment I think
I will try the next step. One of my next brews I will try a side by side
comparison. I will make starter solutions from each brand and split a batch
to really compare differences (including taste) from what should be the
same.
Thanks
Jonathan
--
--
Michael Valentiner, Minneapolis, Minnesota
mpv(a)yuck.net
10:08 a.m.
New subject: Yeast XRef Chart
Attached is a yeast cross reference chart I started putting together a long time ago. My
primary source was the Homebrew Digest, so I consider the information conjecture, at best.
Some I've brewed side by side and concur (e.g., WLP 002 and Wy 1968) and some from
correspondence with the manufacturer (WLP 550, WLP 565, WLP 570). Any corrections,
verifications, or additions are welcome.
--
--
Michael Valentiner, Minneapolis, Minnesota
mpv(a)yuck.net
-- HTML Attachment decoded to text by Ecartis --
-- File: Yeast_XRef.html
; x-mac-creator="4D534945" Yeast XRef Chart
White Labs Wyeast Bass Worthington Whiteshield 1028 - London Ale Sierra
Nevada/Seibel BRY-96/Ballentine WLP001 - California Ale 1056 - American Ale
Guiness WLP004 - Irish 1084 - Irish Whitbread 1098 - British Ale
Mendocino/Liberty Ale 1272 - American Ale II Henley 1275 - Thames Valley
Youngs 1318 - London Ale III Fullers WLP002 - English Ale 1968 - London ESB
Ringwood WLP005 - British Ringwood McEwans WLP028 - Edinburgh Ale 1728 -
Scottish Sam Adams WLP008 - East Coast WLP023 - Burton Chimay WLP500 -
Trappist Ale 1241 - Belgian Abbey Duvel 1388 - Belgian Strong Ale Rochefort
1762 - Belgian Abbey II Westmalle 3787 - Trappist High Gravity WLP029 -
German Kolsch 1007 - Geramn WLP300 - Hefeweizan Zum Uerige WLPAmerican
Hefeweizan Weihenstephan 66 or 68 WLP380 - Hefeweizan IV 3068 -
WeihenstephanWheat Hoegaarden/Celis WLP400 - Belgain Wit 3944 - Belgian
WhitePilsner Urquell WLP800 - Pilsner 2278 - Czech Pils Anchor Steam WLP810
-San Francisco 2112 - California Lager WLP820 - Octoberfest Weihenstephan
206WLP830 - German Lager 2206 - Bavarian Lager Anheuser-Busch 2007 - Pilsen
Schells 2035 - American Lager Carlsberg 2042 - Danish Weihenstephan 34/70
2124 - Bohemian 2247 - Danish II Christian Schmidt 2272 - North American
Lager Wissenschaftliche Station 308 2308 - Munich
1:23 p.m.
New subject: Yeast XRef Chart
-- HTML Attachment decoded to text by Ecartis --
Is this our list server software getting in the way again? Ugh!
Try this: cut and paste the following html into an empty text file, save as
"yeastxref.html", and open with your web browser.
<html>
<head>
<meta name=Title content="Yeast XRef Chart">
<title>Yeast XRef Chart</title>
<style>
<!--table {}
.style0
{text-align:general;
vertical-align:bottom;
white-space:nowrap;
color:windowtext;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-weight:400;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none;
font-family:Verdana;
border:none;}
td
{padding-top:1px;
padding-right:1px;
padding-left:1px;
color:windowtext;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-weight:400;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none;
font-family:Verdana;
text-align:general;
vertical-align:bottom;
border:none;
white-space:nowrap;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body link="#0000d4" vlink=purple>
<table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=552 style='border-collapse:
collapse;table-layout:fixed'>
<col width=228>
<col width=149>
<col width=175>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13 width=228></td>
<td width=149>White Labs</td>
<td width=175>Wyeast</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Bass Worthington Whiteshield</td>
<td></td>
<td>1028 - London Ale</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Sierra Nevada/Seibel BRY-96/Ballentine</td>
<td>WLP001 - California Ale</td>
<td>1056 - American Ale</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Guiness</td>
<td>WLP004 - Irish</td>
<td>1084 - Irish</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Whitbread</td>
<td></td>
<td>1098 - British Ale</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Mendocino/Liberty Ale</td>
<td></td>
<td>1272 - American Ale II</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Henley</td>
<td></td>
<td>1275 - Thames Valley</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Youngs</td>
<td></td>
<td>1318 - London Ale III</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Fullers</td>
<td>WLP002 - English Ale</td>
<td>1968 - London ESB</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Ringwood</td>
<td>WLP005 - British</td>
<td>Ringwood</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>McEwans</td>
<td>WLP028 - Edinburgh Ale</td>
<td>1728 - Scottish</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Sam Adams</td>
<td>WLP008 - East Coast</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td>WLP023 - Burton</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Chimay</td>
<td>WLP500 - Trappist Ale</td>
<td>1241 - Belgian Abbey</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Duvel</td>
<td></td>
<td>1388 - Belgian Strong Ale</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Rochefort</td>
<td></td>
<td>1762 - Belgian Abbey II</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Westmalle</td>
<td></td>
<td>3787 - Trappist High Gravity</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td>WLP029 - German Kolsch</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td>1007 - German</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td>WLP300 - Hefeweizan</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Zum Uerige</td>
<td>WLPAmerican Hefeweizan</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Weihenstephan 66 or 68</td>
<td>WLP380 - Hefeweizan IV</td>
<td>3068 - Weihenstephan Wheat</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Hoegaarden/Celis</td>
<td>WLP400 - Belgain Wit</td>
<td>3944 - Belgian White</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Pilsner Urquell</td>
<td>WLP800 - Pilsner</td>
<td>2278 - Czech Pils</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Anchor Steam</td>
<td>WLP810 - San Francisco</td>
<td>2112 - California Lager</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td>WLP820 - Octoberfest</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Weihenstephan 206</td>
<td>WLP830 - German Lager</td>
<td>2206 - Bavarian Lager</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Anheuser-Busch</td>
<td></td>
<td>2007 - Pilsen</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Schells</td>
<td></td>
<td>2035 - American Lager</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Carlsberg</td>
<td></td>
<td>2042 - Danish</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Weihenstephan 34/70</td>
<td></td>
<td>2124 - Bohemian</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13></td>
<td></td>
<td>2247 - Danish II</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Christian Schmidt</td>
<td></td>
<td>2272 - North American Lager</td>
</tr>
<tr height=13>
<td height=13>Wissenschaftliche Station 308</td>
<td></td>
<td>2308 - Munich</td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>
</html>
--
--
Michael Valentiner, Minneapolis, Minnesota
mpv(a)yuck.net
2:10 p.m.
New subject: Yeast XRef Chart
So, it works for some, not for others. I've posted it to the PHC Yahoo group. Try:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/phc-club/files/YeastXRef.html>.
--
--
Michael Valentiner, Minneapolis, Minnesota
mpv(a)yuck.net
8347
days inactive
8347
days old
4 comments
2 participants
participants (2)
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Crist, Jonathan -
Michael Valentiner