21 Dec
2004
21 Dec
'04
9:48 a.m.
Totally unreleated but possibly helpful.......
I read a technique about souring first with Lactic and fermenting second with yeast.
Ferment the first stage very warm and cool for the yeast. This possibly provides more
sour and more alcohol (best of both?).
I was previously considering making a sour mash in the house and the more I think, the
more I believe I shouldn't do it - at least until the windows can remain open.
Anyhow, just a thought.
Rick Oftel
>> "Mike Moranz"
<mmoranz(a)net-info.com> 12/21/04 09:31AM >>>
Steve, Steve, and Mike,
Thanks. The link SF provided is more than I need for a Red, but I'm
actually leaning toward the Oud Bruin. I found this link but it's more
about flavor than brewing.
http://www.northamericanbrewers.org/that_old_brown_magic.htm
I don't see Bret mentioned in the BJCP guidelines for an OB. So, I would
avoid the Roselare since it includes the B word. I'm looking for a balanced
beer. It appears that alcohol inhibits the lactic along with low temps, so
pitching all at once with a warmer ferment, rather than adding Lactic at
secondary seems the way to go, along with extended aging.
Mike
From: Steve Fletty [mailto:fletty@umn.edu]
3763 Roeselare Belgian Blend. This culture is a blend of Saccharomyces,
Brettanomyces, and Lactic Acid Bacteria to produce classic
Belgian styles of
sour brown and red beers. The culture is maintained in equilibrium to
produce a balanced beer with complex aromas and flavors. No
additional yeast
is necessary for primary fermentation.
Also, this link:
http://www2.parc.com/eml/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
Steve Piatz agrees.
Wyeast Roselare is the one to use for Flanders Red as it is the proper
mixed culture. From what I read it wants to ferment warm (over 75F
perhaps into the 80s) to get the sourness. The lacto doesn't grow
very well at cool temps. I held mine around 75-85 for a few months.
Mike Valentiner takes the sour mash approach.
We soured the mash at 115F for 36 hours, then conducted
the mash as usual.
Results
were satisfactory, but I was looking for more sourness.
A lot of work,
but I'm glad we tried the traditional method. Once.
I'm thinking of making a soured stout, by pitching
Wyeast 4335
(L.delbrueckii) and letting it have its way with they wort for 3 days
(or so), then pitching S.cerevisiae. The idea is the 3 days for the
L.delbruekii give it a chance to get established and produce a
significant degree of sourness. The S.cerevisiae then takes over and
makes beer. I forget why I decided three days.
21 Dec
21 Dec
10:19 a.m.
New subject: FW: Yeast and lactobacillus
Another option is to split the wort into separate fermenters -- I think
I did this with a 40% lactobacillus fermentation and 60% sachromyces.
The key on the lactobacillus is to get it very warm -- 100F+. I can't
remember exactly what I did to promote that kind of heat, though I
remember an old Lambic Digest post (dating myself here -- we're talking
"pre-web" BBS) where someone put the lacto fermenter in the attic in
the spring or summer. I'm sure a warming blanket, or a hot box with a
light bulb would work, too.
Of course, you can always cheat it with a shot of lactic acid after the
sachromyces fermentation occurs. Be sure to _test_ your quantities of
acid before committing an entire batch to the neighbors.
Andrew
--- Rick Oftel <Rick.Oftel(a)toro.com> wrote:
Totally unreleated but possibly helpful.......
I read a technique about souring first with Lactic and fermenting
second with yeast. Ferment the first stage very warm and cool for
the yeast. This possibly provides more sour and more alcohol (best
of both?).
I was previously considering making a sour mash in the house and the
more I think, the more I believe I shouldn't do it - at least until
the windows can remain open. Anyhow, just a thought.
Rick Oftel
>> "Mike Moranz"
<mmoranz(a)net-info.com> 12/21/04 09:31AM >>>
Steve, Steve, and Mike,
Thanks. The link SF provided is more than I need for a Red, but I'm
actually leaning toward the Oud Bruin. I found this link but it's
more
about flavor than brewing.
http://www.northamericanbrewers.org/that_old_brown_magic.htm
I don't see Bret mentioned in the BJCP guidelines for an OB. So, I
would
avoid the Roselare since it includes the B word. I'm looking for a
balanced
beer. It appears that alcohol inhibits the lactic along with low
temps, so
pitching all at once with a warmer ferment, rather than adding Lactic
at
secondary seems the way to go, along with extended aging.
Mike
From: Steve Fletty [mailto:fletty@umn.edu]
3763 Roeselare Belgian Blend. This culture is a blend of
Saccharomyces,
Brettanomyces, and Lactic Acid Bacteria to
produce classic
Belgian styles of
sour brown and red beers. The culture is maintained in equilibrium
to
produce a balanced beer with complex aromas and
flavors. No
additional yeast
is necessary for primary fermentation.
Also, this link:
http://www2.parc.com/eml/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
Steve Piatz agrees.
Wyeast Roselare is the one to use for Flanders Red as it is the
proper
mixed culture. From what I read it wants to
ferment warm (over 75F
perhaps into the 80s) to get the sourness. The lacto doesn't grow
very well at cool temps. I held mine around 75-85 for a few months.
Mike Valentiner takes the sour mash approach.
We soured the mash at 115F for 36 hours, then
conducted the mash as
usual.
Results
were satisfactory, but I was looking for more
sourness. A lot of
work,
but I'm glad we tried the traditional method.
Once.
I'm thinking of making a soured stout, by
pitching Wyeast 4335
(L.delbrueckii) and letting it have its way with they wort for 3
days
(or so), then pitching S.cerevisiae. The idea is
the 3 days for the
L.delbruekii give it a chance to get established and produce a
significant degree of sourness. The S.cerevisiae then takes over
and
makes beer. I forget why I decided three days.
7655
days inactive
7655
days old
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Andrew Ruggles -
Rick Oftel