18 Mar
2005
18 Mar
'05
6:49 p.m.
As Jon so thoughtfully and poignantly pointed out, the SPHBC will be enter
under our club, as will the PHC as theirs for the NHC competition. There
was never ment to be hurt feelings or put a rift between the two locals
clubs but apparently, as seen in Jon's versing, that has happened anyway.
There are a lot of people that belong to both clubs so this is aimed
mostly at them. For people that dont know, QUAFF is a San Diego based club
that has some EXTREMELY good brewers and has won home brew club of the
year. Let alone are they good brewers they are very good people and bend
over backwards when ever you ask them for help. When first I heard about
them and saw them last year at the NHC I thought they were a massive club
and just out entered people. So I emailed Jamil Zainasheff, the Point
Winner from last years NHC, and he forwarded my questions to their club
president. Here are his responses:
Hi Kris,
Jamil forwarded this message to me, as I am the President of Quaff. I
will try to answer your questions, but I do not have hard data to give
you.
1. Right now we have about 80 - 85 paid members. By year end we
typically have about 100. That's because we have about a 15% turnover
each year, as members drift off into different hobbies.
2. I would say that approx. 60% of our members enter competitions.
Basically, that means we have 40% of our membership are social members
only. Some don't even brew, they just love our parties.
3. Of the 60% who enter I would say that about 50% of these people win
medals consistently.
This may sound unreasonable, but the key to our success has been the
open sharing of information within the club. If I'm going to brew a
Pilsner, I go directly to the one or two members that consistently
outperform everyone else in lagers. They will in turn share any and all
information when asked. Other members are famous for other styles, etc.
The reason this attitude permeates the club is primarily due to one of
our former Presidents, Peter Zien. Peter single handedly developed a
"Team" concept in Quaff. No one cares which Quaff member wins, as long
as one of us wins. Everyone gets just as excited about someone else's
medal as they do about themselves. That's especially true when a new
member starts to win competitions. It really is quite a sight to see
when a new guy is met by 10 or 15 people after he wins his first medal.
I'll stop rambling, but if you have any other questions, just let me
know. If anyone from your club is ever in San Diego, please let us know
through quaff.org or directly to one us. We'd love to play host and
show you the better beer bars in town. Take care.
Harold Gulbransen
So you see, SPHBC has around 60 members and MHBA has many more than that.
The difference between our clubs and QUAFF is not members, per say, but
participation. In order to win anything our clubs need to have higher
participation. Individually, we all need to become better brewers. Learn
as much as we can and help each other learn more and most importantly
enter, enter enter.
Cheers
Kristen England
SPHBC President
BJCP Education Director
19 Mar
19 Mar
12:26 p.m.
New subject: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
This is interesting.
I started entering my beers about 6 years ago to get feedback.
I wanted to make a kiiler IPA.
I didn't win anything for a good year or so while I learned and improved
my technique.
What really helped me, however, was interacting with people like Steve Piatz
and Curt Stock. Talking to them about what they did, sharing beers, and
then taking the BJCP class helped me be a much better brewer.
Brewing in a vacuum, without sharing info and beers with other brewers, just
isn't good enough, in my opinion, if you want to be a better brewer.
This may sound unreasonable, but the key to our
success has been the
open sharing of information within the club. If I'm going to brew a
Pilsner, I go directly to the one or two members that consistently
outperform everyone else in lagers. They will in turn share any and all
information when asked. Other members are famous for other styles, etc.
The reason this attitude permeates the club is primarily due to one of
our former Presidents, Peter Zien. Peter single handedly developed a
"Team" concept in Quaff. No one cares which Quaff member wins, as long
as one of us wins. Everyone gets just as excited about someone else's
medal as they do about themselves. That's especially true when a new
member starts to win competitions. It really is quite a sight to see
when a new guy is met by 10 or 15 people after he wins his first medal.
4:02 p.m.
New subject: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
Steve-
Agreed. I have a similar experience. I think I entered 3 or 4 contests and
came away skunked (me, hopefully not my beer!) before I ever won a single
medal. But having entered, I started meeting the local brewers, and talking
to the ones who WERE winning Every Single Time, and to some who never even
entered, but still made GREAT beer! And I learned a LOT from their
suggestions, and I am grateful to every one of them (Piatz, Ruggles, Larson,
Sinnen, Stock, Weiland, Swalinkavich, Schlegel, Krug, Oftel, Glewwe, Nelson,
Vitt, Ruud, Taylor, Valentiner, Nilles, Gunderson, Fletty, England, Cotton,
Eibner, Mikkelson, Hewitt, Exire LaTour, ... who am I leaving out??)
Probably a few dozen more I've learned from. There's a list of local
"experts" for those of you seeking help with your brewing!
I also agree that "Book L'arning" about beer will only take you so far. I
think everyone I've ever met in the Twin Cities had been very generous and
helpful about anything I've ever asked about beer and brewing. I actually
think that extends to the beer community nationally, which I've just been
exposed to over the last 2 or 3 years. Just about anywhere you go, brewers
are more than happy to talk about and help you with beer, techniques, and of
course, gadgetry. :-D
I think the myth about some people leaving out a key ingredient in a shared
recipe, keeping some special brewing "secret", or passing on incomplete or
incorrect information about brewing techniques is mostly that, a myth. And
if there are any people like that - well, I mostly just feel sorry for them.
They don't get it, and they won't ever really be part of the
"brotherhood"
that is the beer brewing fraternity.
Having said that, Winning is still good! ;-D And it's in the nature of the
friendly competition that John laid down his challenge to QUAFF's supremacy
in the AHA Club of the Year cup. He was following thru on a pact made two
years ago by a lot of people. Well, it's off now, and that's OK. Enter as
whichever club you will, but the battle has been joined! It may not be this
year, or even next year that someone poses a serious challenge to QUAFF.
Their model is valid - and we too can help make better brewers, make better
clubs, and make better BEER! The competition from the Twin Cities is coming
looking for them! :-D And with the First Round in our Own Back Yard this
year, who knows????
- Al
-----Original Message-----
From: mba-bounce(a)thebarn.com [mailto:mba-bounce@thebarn.com] On Behalf Of
Steve Fletty
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:26 PM
To: mnbrewers(a)yahoogroups.com
Cc: mnbrewers(a)yahoogroups.com; mba(a)thebarn.com
Subject: Re: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
This is interesting.
I started entering my beers about 6 years ago to get feedback.
I wanted to make a kiiler IPA.
I didn't win anything for a good year or so while I learned and improved my
technique.
What really helped me, however, was interacting with people like Steve Piatz
and Curt Stock. Talking to them about what they did, sharing beers, and then
taking the BJCP class helped me be a much better brewer.
Brewing in a vacuum, without sharing info and beers with other brewers, just
isn't good enough, in my opinion, if you want to be a better brewer.
This may sound unreasonable, but the key to our
success has been the
open sharing of information within the club. If I'm going to brew a
Pilsner, I go directly to the one or two members that consistently
outperform everyone else in lagers. They will in turn share any and
all information when asked. Other members are famous for other styles,
etc.
The reason this attitude permeates the club is
primarily due to one of
our former Presidents, Peter Zien. Peter single handedly developed a
"Team" concept in Quaff. No one cares which Quaff member wins, as
long as one of us wins. Everyone gets just as excited about someone
else's medal as they do about themselves. That's especially true when
a new member starts to win competitions. It really is quite a sight
to see when a new guy is met by 10 or 15 people after he wins his first
medal.
20 Mar
20 Mar
11:33 a.m.
New subject: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
Well, would we call this a can-o-worms? As an ex-president(and you really
can't know what that's about till you've done it)my perspective is maybe a
little different.
Firstly, there are a lot of MHBA "lurkers" who brew and hardly ever attend
meetings or enter competitions. We've tried many things over the years and
I just don't know the answer why.
Maybe they just don't care about their brewing skills, their judging skills,
or their club.
As everyone who has helped with events knows full well, getting some of the
lurkers to give up an hour of their time is near impossible too.
When I first joined the MHBA back in the early 90's, I could get helpful
(TMI sometimes)answers to any question. I learned that judging and entering
comps was the way to improve my skills. It is still that way today. All
the regional clubs have more expertise and just great people that are more
than willing to share. And that includes their homes, parties, equipment,
and time.
Bottom line is that I've seen so many people become better brewers and good
friends, simply because they attended an event, met someone, asked a
question, stayed positive in the face of constructive criticism (and yes,
sometimes rude jukes like the apron/bare butt you know who you are thing.
:))and joined in.
By the way, I never knew much about "the plan" but did think it was odd that
many MHBA members entered as SPHB last year. Well, now I know.
Mike Moranz
-----Original Message-----
From: mba-bounce(a)thebarn.com [mailto:mba-bounce@thebarn.com]On Behalf Of
Steve Fletty
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:26 PM
To: mnbrewers(a)yahoogroups.com
Cc: mnbrewers(a)yahoogroups.com; mba(a)thebarn.com
Subject: Re: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
This is interesting.
I started entering my beers about 6 years ago to get feedback.
I wanted to make a kiiler IPA.
I didn't win anything for a good year or so while I learned and improved
my technique.
What really helped me, however, was interacting with people like
Steve Piatz
and Curt Stock. Talking to them about what they did, sharing beers, and
then taking the BJCP class helped me be a much better brewer.
Brewing in a vacuum, without sharing info and beers with other
brewers, just
isn't good enough, in my opinion, if you want to be a better brewer.
This may sound unreasonable, but the key to our
success has been the
open sharing of information within the club. If I'm going to brew a
Pilsner, I go directly to the one or two members that consistently
outperform everyone else in lagers. They will in turn share any and all
information when asked. Other members are famous for other styles, etc.
The reason this attitude permeates the club is primarily due to one of
our former Presidents, Peter Zien. Peter single handedly developed a
"Team" concept in Quaff. No one cares which Quaff member wins, as long
as one of us wins. Everyone gets just as excited about someone else's
medal as they do about themselves. That's especially true when a new
member starts to win competitions. It really is quite a sight to see
when a new guy is met by 10 or 15 people after he wins his first medal.
21 Mar
21 Mar
10:07 a.m.
New subject: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Moranz" <mmoranz(a)net-info.com>
To: <mnbrewers(a)yahoogroups.com>
By the way, I never knew much about "the plan" but did think it was odd
that
many MHBA members entered as SPHB last year. Well, now I know.
Mike Moranz
If I recall correctly, the so-called plan was for people to enter as the
club which had the most points from the club only competitions. That would
be MHBA at this point.
Only a few people were involved in that vague scheme. When others, who were
not part of that whole idea, didn't want to go along, and non MHBA and non
SPHBC brewers were not interested in joining in, the whole thing, which, as
I said, only involved a handful of people, never really got off the ground.
The crux: club pride, especially for the non-MHBA and non SPHBC people that
were targeted to join in.
9:02 a.m.
New subject: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
To Kris and to others--
I apologize if there was a "tone" to my note; that was not my intention. My
point was solely to let all those folks who are in both clubs know that they
should enter Nationals under whichever club they feel like. Many people had
signed on to enter under MHBA, and I just wanted the word to get out before
entries are due. An explanation as to why not to enter as MHBA was
necessary, and I very gently (I thought) explained that. No hard feelings.
Looking back, there is one line that seems like a dig, but it was actually
meant to be funny. The message was aimed to inform those who aren't in "the
Nationals loop," rather than to be a knock on those who already decided
which club name to use.
I didn't want those folks to go ahead with the original plan, then find out
after the fact that the plan had been changed.
Information, not inflammation, was my goal, but I am sorry if anyone picked
up a taste of sour grapes in the tenor of the message. :)
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kristen England" <engla008(a)umn.edu>
To: <mnbrewers(a)yahoogroups.com>; <mnbrewers(a)yahoogroups.com>;
<mba(a)thebarn.com>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [mnbrewers] AHA Nationals--one club name?
As Jon so thoughtfully and poignantly pointed out, the SPHBC will be enter
under our club, as will the PHC as theirs for the NHC competition. There
was never ment to be hurt feelings or put a rift between the two locals
clubs but apparently, as seen in Jon's versing, that has happened anyway.
There are a lot of people that belong to both clubs so this is aimed
mostly at them. For people that dont know, QUAFF is a San Diego based
club
that has some EXTREMELY good brewers and has won home
brew club of the
year. Let alone are they good brewers they are very good people and bend
over backwards when ever you ask them for help. When first I heard about
them and saw them last year at the NHC I thought they were a massive club
and just out entered people. So I emailed Jamil Zainasheff, the Point
Winner from last years NHC, and he forwarded my questions to their club
president. Here are his responses:
Hi Kris,
Jamil forwarded this message to me, as I am the President of Quaff. I
will try to answer your questions, but I do not have hard data to give
you.
1. Right now we have about 80 - 85 paid members. By year end we
typically have about 100. That's because we have about a 15% turnover
each year, as members drift off into different hobbies.
2. I would say that approx. 60% of our members enter competitions.
Basically, that means we have 40% of our membership are social members
only. Some don't even brew, they just love our parties.
3. Of the 60% who enter I would say that about 50% of these people win
medals consistently.
This may sound unreasonable, but the key to our success has been the
open sharing of information within the club. If I'm going to brew a
Pilsner, I go directly to the one or two members that consistently
outperform everyone else in lagers. They will in turn share any and all
information when asked. Other members are famous for other styles, etc.
The reason this attitude permeates the club is primarily due to one of
our former Presidents, Peter Zien. Peter single handedly developed a
"Team" concept in Quaff. No one cares which Quaff member wins, as long
as one of us wins. Everyone gets just as excited about someone else's
medal as they do about themselves. That's especially true when a new
member starts to win competitions. It really is quite a sight to see
when a new guy is met by 10 or 15 people after he wins his first medal.
I'll stop rambling, but if you have any other questions, just let me
know. If anyone from your club is ever in San Diego, please let us know
through quaff.org or directly to one us. We'd love to play host and
show you the better beer bars in town. Take care.
Harold Gulbransen
So you see, SPHBC has around 60 members and MHBA has many more than that.
The difference between our clubs and QUAFF is not members, per say, but
participation. In order to win anything our clubs need to have higher
participation. Individually, we all need to become better brewers. Learn
as much as we can and help each other learn more and most importantly
enter, enter enter.
Cheers
Kristen England
SPHBC President
BJCP Education Director
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7565
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7568
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5 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Al Boyce -
John Longballa -
Kristen England -
Mike Moranz -
Steve Fletty -
Steve Fletty