21 Dec
2004
21 Dec
'04
9:48 a.m.
Totally unreleated but possibly helpful.......
I read a technique about souring first with Lactic and fermenting second with yeast.
Ferment the first stage very warm and cool for the yeast. This possibly provides more
sour and more alcohol (best of both?).
I was previously considering making a sour mash in the house and the more I think, the
more I believe I shouldn't do it - at least until the windows can remain open.
Anyhow, just a thought.
Rick Oftel
>> "Mike Moranz"
<mmoranz(a)net-info.com> 12/21/04 09:31AM >>>
Steve, Steve, and Mike,
Thanks. The link SF provided is more than I need for a Red, but I'm
actually leaning toward the Oud Bruin. I found this link but it's more
about flavor than brewing.
http://www.northamericanbrewers.org/that_old_brown_magic.htm
I don't see Bret mentioned in the BJCP guidelines for an OB. So, I would
avoid the Roselare since it includes the B word. I'm looking for a balanced
beer. It appears that alcohol inhibits the lactic along with low temps, so
pitching all at once with a warmer ferment, rather than adding Lactic at
secondary seems the way to go, along with extended aging.
Mike
From: Steve Fletty [mailto:fletty@umn.edu]
3763 Roeselare Belgian Blend. This culture is a blend of Saccharomyces,
Brettanomyces, and Lactic Acid Bacteria to produce classic
Belgian styles of
sour brown and red beers. The culture is maintained in equilibrium to
produce a balanced beer with complex aromas and flavors. No
additional yeast
is necessary for primary fermentation.
Also, this link:
http://www2.parc.com/eml/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml
Steve Piatz agrees.
Wyeast Roselare is the one to use for Flanders Red as it is the proper
mixed culture. From what I read it wants to ferment warm (over 75F
perhaps into the 80s) to get the sourness. The lacto doesn't grow
very well at cool temps. I held mine around 75-85 for a few months.
Mike Valentiner takes the sour mash approach.
We soured the mash at 115F for 36 hours, then conducted
the mash as usual.
Results
were satisfactory, but I was looking for more sourness.
A lot of work,
but I'm glad we tried the traditional method. Once.
I'm thinking of making a soured stout, by pitching
Wyeast 4335
(L.delbrueckii) and letting it have its way with they wort for 3 days
(or so), then pitching S.cerevisiae. The idea is the 3 days for the
L.delbruekii give it a chance to get established and produce a
significant degree of sourness. The S.cerevisiae then takes over and
makes beer. I forget why I decided three days.